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The Zeitgeist Movement


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#1
ShadowDemon

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http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Not sure if any of you have seen the movies, but they're quite the eye-opener and I would really love it if you took the time to watch them and give your input. The first one debunks religion, talks about the suspicious government activity after 9/11, and a glimpse into the reality behind the monetary system. The second video goes more in depth with the utter corruption of the monetary system and how we can live just fine (actually, ever better) without it.

Zeitgeist, The Movie
Zeitgeist: Addendum
"Religion is like a game nobody really wants to play: the rules are made up throughout the whole thing and the other players are total crybabies when the leader doesn't show them special attention." - me

#2
Sanctuary

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I'm spending some time today going through and watching the 1.5 hour introduction and so far - I can't say they are wrong.

The human race is at war with it's universe - and the human race is going to lose.

The way human beings live is at serious odds with the way the nature world should work. Anyone that's aware can feel that deeply - even if they might not fully uinderstand why. They know internally something just isn't right with the way we live.
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Sometimes it's in the darkness that we truly learn to see.

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#3
Atnevon

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Thank you for bringing this to us ShadowDemon. It definitely brings up some interesting points of discussion and I'm pretty certain that a lot of issues of this will be good for debate.

I haven't watched either of the two films you linked yet, but I did just finish the same 1.5 hour intro that Sanctuary mentioned. (Direct Link)

What I believe that they definitely nailed down and got completely right were many of the problems that face the world today and how we arrived at them. I would completely agree with Sanctuary and with the film that the way we, as humans, are living today is just not going to work out in the long run, and it is very slowly killing us all.

There is no question in my mind that the governments we have and the monetary system that the world is based around are growing rapidly outdated. We also should have reached a much more peaceful state with nature by this point in our society as well, rather than fighting against it every step of the way. There's no one out there that can really say that we're doing things right, and I think that much we can all agree on.

Where the problem comes in is the solution though. The intro hammers very well into what's wrong with the world society, and it even identifies where a lot of those problems stem from. I completely and 100% agree with problems it has outlined. However, I don't think that their proposed solution to those problems is anywhere near as perfect as they believe it to be.

As much as the makers of the film may disagree with me, what is really being proposed is a modified form of communism that tries to work around the core issue that communism runs up against. What is that core issue? People.

In communism, everyone is meant to work together to maintain the society. If everyone works hard and no one slacks off, then the result is a system where all needs of the people are met and everyone has a distinct place in the society to function and fulfill themselves. The model breaks apart though because the reality is that if people aren't motivated, they won't work hard. Things will start to move slower and slower because of that lack of motivation to do better and to work harder, and as that effect snowballs it tends to result in absolutely horrible conditions for all the citizens where there are shortages in many of the bare basic necessities of life.

Now, to its credit, the film proposes a solution that does manage to deal with the problems of humans not working hard enough, and the solution they offer sounds pretty compelling at first. What they're suggesting is that we rely on hard working computers and machines that fix themselves instead of relying on hard working humans. It is a viable solution and one that we realistically could get to in a couple generations I think. But, by delegating everything to machines, we end up re-introducing the same problems that communism had, but in reverse.

What we end up with is an over abundance of goods and not only a lack of motivation to work because of that abundance, but a lack of work that's even available to be done at all. While this definitely opens up the doors for people to explore their creativity, there is something to be said for being given tasks to do as well. It tends to open up the door to get you moving in your life and it gives you goals to work towards in those times where you might not have any of your own. There's actually a film called Wall-E that I believe paints a pretty accurate picture of what a completely machine managed life could look like for humans, and let me assure you, the picture is far from pretty.

As much as we absolutely detest them at times, I think that for most people, we do need jobs. We need that motivation in the morning to get up and start working so that we can pay all of our bills and keep doing the things that we do like to do in our spare time. Even for those self employed, there's still that motivation of reward and paying the bills that keeps life meaningful. We have to have our place in the world, even if it's not doing what we want to do sometimes. Our jobs also many times serve as inspiration to us in our creative time and by having less time to be creative, it makes those chances we get to outpour our creativity even more meaningful.

Don't get me wrong here, I'd absolutely love it if I had all the time in the world to pursue my creativity. Most of us would, and I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that desire. It is, however, a point that I believe needs to be worked towards in our lives, instead of just something that's given to us outright. All that time we spent working towards it then helps to make the results even more meaningful.

There are definitely problems with the current system we have in place, and honestly, I don't have the answers to those problems, even as much as I really wish I did. The people that made this film are extremely brave for putting out the idea and the proposal to get there, and for that I have to give them a lot of credit. It's more than most people would do, and they were willing to try to approach a problem that has, as of yet, been unsolved. Sadly though, I don't think that their solution holds the water that it needs to.

That's just my two cents though. Like ShadowDemon, I'm extremely curious to see what everyone else thinks.
The sky was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel. - William Gibson




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